Few rock drummers have made as big an impact on popular culture as Carmine Appice. His drumming style and writing with people like Jeff Beck, Rod Stewart, Ozzy Osbourne, and others have made him a music icon. His band Vanilla Fudge recently put out a collection of Led Zeppelin covers called Vanilla Zeppelin and he took some time to talk about it.
Please press the PLAY icon for the MisplacedStraws Conversation with Carmine Appice –
On this record being a remastered version of 2007’s Out Through The In Door – We never really released it properly. What happened was, when it was released back in the day, in 2007, the label went out of business, it never got a release, we never get anything for it. We were calling something else, Out Through The In Door, it was just by Vanilla Fudge. They must have renamed it, Vanilla Zeppelin, I think it’s a terrible name. :45
On if the original lineup played on the record – Yes. We did in analog too, which is great. We did a deal with Golden Robot Records before Covid, like 2019, and we were gonna do (a record). The reason why they called it that, is because we were gonna call the album Supreme Fudge, we’re gonna do five Supremes songs, which were all arranged, and I have arrangements on my iPad for it, and we never did it because of Covid. But we did do “Stop in the Name of Love” in January 2020 before the Covid and I went to LA to the NAMM show, and I actually got Tim Bogert to play on it, which was awesome. Tim played on it, and he was very sick at the time, but he did play on it. So I was gonna be called Supreme Fudge. I guess they took that concept and Vanilla Zeppelin. I didn’t know I was coming out worldwide to tell you the truth. They’ve been releasing singles off it, and we got a small advance for it because it was already out, and now I got a call from the press agent saying, “Do you want to do these interviews?” So I got a whole bunch of interviews today talking about it. Our manager at the time, Tom Vitorino, who put the deal together, originally, we were with him in 2005 and we left him, went back, it’s been one of those deals. So he said, “Look, instead of doing an album like we did a Spirit of ’67“, where we did a bunch of different songs that came out in 1967, “Why don’t you pick one artist to do it?” He said, “What artist do you, feel close to?” So we said, “Well, we were very close with Led Zeppelin”. We did that record in 2005, and we picked as that we like. Now when we play live, we actually do “Dazed and Confused” and we changed it again with a different feel, almost like a jazz kind of feel. Then in the middle of it, we go into “Babe, I’m Gonna Leave You”. People love it. Then when we finished that, they usually give a huge cheer because we really “Fudged” it like we always do. 1:28
On his relationship with John Bonham and Led Zeppelin – You gotta understand that when they came out, nobody knew them. People knew Jimmy Page. We used to do gigs with the Fudge and the Yardbirds with Jimmy Page in it. So the Yardbirds (and us) had the same lawyer, let’s put it that way. Jeff Beck had the same lawyer, Peter Grant was the manager, Phil Basile managed us and he managed Ted Nugent, and basically, that’s how it happened. We had the same lawyer. So when they finished their record, it wasn’t gonna be released until January 1969. We got a copy of it, I don’t know, maybe October or November of ’68, and they said, “Well, listen to this record. It’s Jimmy Page’s new band, Led Zeppelin”. I said, “Who’s in it?”, he said, “Well, nobody you know, all brand new guys, it’s a great record”. So we listened to it. When I heard “Good Times, Bad Times” with the foot by John Bonham, I said, “Whoa, this is badass”. So we all loved it. They said, “We wanna do some shows with them, have them open up”. I said, “Great”. So the very first show we did was on December 26th, 1968 in Denver., Vanilla Fudge and Spirit. The gig was sold out, so our agent was Led Zeppelin’s agent, Barry Favors was his name, and we said “Barry, we want to put Led Zeppelin, Jimmy’s new band”. “We don’t need them”, Barry said, “We’re already sold out”. We said, “It’s only $1500 come on and put him on the show, they need to start getting exposure”. He didn’t want it. The agent said, “I’ll tell you what we’ll do. You pay $750, and Vanilla Fudge will pay $750 to have him on the show”. He broke down and said, “Okay”, so he put him on a show. There were boos, “Bring on the Fudge. Get rid of them”. But we like them. So then I got to meet John Bonham, and he saw my big drum set that I had at the time. I didn’t find out until later that I was really an influence on him. When I read a book called Thunder of Drums, he talked about when he came to that show on that tour, and he went back and he and Cozy Powell, they were friends, That was before Cozy was with Jeff Beck, he would talk about what it was like seeing me and all that stuff. I knew I influenced him because he told me, but I didn’t really know how much until I read that book. I didn’t like talking about it myself saying, “Yeah, I influenced John Bonham”, because it makes me sound like an ego-maniac and most people didn’t believe it because John Bonham became such an icon. But it was a good relationship. I’m always like that when I was with Ozzy, I used to hang out with Motley Crue, they were the opening act, I’d hang out with them. I’d hang out with Tommy (Lee), I’d hang out with Mick (Mars), and all of them, and that’s just the way I am. I hang out with the roadies. I’m a friendly guy and I like to meet new people. So that’s how it was. So me and John started hanging out and he loved my drum set, and he asked me, “You think you can get me a Ludwig endorsement?” I said, “I don’t know, I’ll call them”. I called them. I said, “It’s a new band, John Bonham from Led Zeppelin, I think they’re gonna be big”, the understatement of the last 6 decades. He got the same drum set I got. I have a picture on the top of the picture is me and my kit, at the bottom is John and his kit, the exact same kit…We did another tour in ’69 with them, and that’s where he used that same kit. That must have been funny because we switched headlining. One night we’d headline, the next night they were headlining, but we both had the same drum kit. So no matter who was headlining, one kit goes out and plays and the drum kit comes off, and another kit comes on, the same drum kit. I often wonder what the people in the audience thought. Randy Castillo, who played with Ozzy, was in the audience once for one of those shows, and he was wondering what the hell was going on. But it was a good tour. He played double bass on that tour. After that tour, Robert (Plant) and Jimmy said he was too busy and they got rid of one bass drum and the Led Zeppelin drum set was born. It was really my kit without another bass drum. My kit was all big and oversized and nobody had a kit like that in those days. I was pioneering for Ludwig all this crazy stuff. 5:10
On that Denver show leading to the Spirit/Led Zeppelin copyright suit – That’s all baloney, Those chords are a stock set of chords. There’s not anything that’s amazing about the chords, it’s the melody on top and the lyrics and the way they arranged it that really made this song happen. So it’s just, I guess, some guys trying to make some money because maybe they hurting. Randy California dies, who else is in the band? Randy’s father died. Surviving members probably didn’t go on to do anything, so they thought, “Well, maybe we could sue Led Zeppelin?” There were other lawsuits that meant more, like when Ozzy got sued by Bob (Dasiley) and Lee (Kerslake) for the first album. That was legitimate. They lost when they shouldn’t have lost. 10:30
On if being known for covers hurt their legacy – I think that might be the problem. We did a third album in which we wrote all our songs. The second album we did killed our career. I’m sorry, but The Beat Goes On was too soon. We had an amazing first album, we had other song arrangments like “Season of the Witch” which was a big song from that record, and we had a lot of other songs that we had already recorded. “Like A Rolling Stone” was another big one, we could have put on another album, there are some other ones, “One More Heartache” by Marvin Gaye. We had all these things recorded, but Shadow (Morton) and Ahmet Ertegun, they were the controlling factor of us. We didn’t know anything, we were brand new. So instead of having us do a second album just like the first album like everybody else did, we did this meticulous concept album and it was horrible. There’s only one song on there, “Moonlight Sonata”, and that could have been on it the second and with his other songs I mentioned, and we probably would have done some more R&B songs and had another second album just like the first. It probably would have done the same thing, or better. That’s what was going on at that time. The first album made the breakthrough, gave you all that stuff, and then the second (continued it). So that album really screwed us up, I remember in California, we were big in California, and they would play the first album, they would play the whole side of the album. So when the second album came out there would play the whole side, people were taking acid and getting really stoned. They would call the radio station, “Take it off, it’s putting us on a bummer” because it was depressing. Black power, Seig Heil, crazy stuff, and this was Ahmet Ertegun and Shadow Morton, we didn’t know what we were doing. When we heard the album the first time, I sat with Tim and said, “It sucks”. Our manager was confused. Now, he was new in the business too. So when that one came out, it zoomed up to the top 15 quickly because of my first album, which was still on the charts. Then it started zooming right down. So the label said, “You better go in to do another album”. So we rushed in with songs that we wrote, thinking everybody was saying we don’t write songs, so we wrote songs, and then they released the first single “Season of the Witch”, a cover. But then that charted at one point, and then they released in September of ’68, they re-released “You Keep Me Hanging On”, which went to number five. Before that, beginning of ’68, we went on the Ed Sullivan Show. Talk about groundbreaking, we were the very first band to ever get on the Ed Sullivan Show without a smash single. We had a big album, we were the first band to break the top 10 without a smash single. There were so many things that we did and the Rock Hall of Fame doesn’t recognize us. I don’t really care because I think they are a bunch of baloney anyway. They’re bringing country people in there and rap people, that’s not rock & roll. They should change the name. If they were the Music Hall of Fame it would make more sense. We’re in the Long Island Music Hall of Fame. They bring everybody in there. It’s no big deal, but when you’re called the Rock Hall of Fame and you got a country artist going in there, what does that mean? A rap artist going in, what does that mean? It’s not the same thing. Anyway, so that’s what killed our career. When “Hanging On” went up again, when we ended up having a top-five single and three albums on the charts. Still, for some reason, we didn’t get the notoriety that Jimi Hendrix, got, or Cream got. Where we were played like 5-8000 seaters where Cream was doing 20,000 seaters, and Hendrix really didn’t get to that point. He died before that. 12:00
On if he should be in the Rock Hall under the Musical Excellence Award – Well, I never really thought about it. I didn’t even know they had that until a couple of years ago, and some people said, “Well, you should be in the Rock Hall for that”, I said that “Maybe you’re right”. I never really thought about it, but now you mentioned it, I mean, I don’t know. I’ve done a lot. I’ve influenced, a lot of people, and I had a drum book that is the biggest-selling rock drum book. I was the very first guy to do a rock clinic of anybody. Nobody knew what a rock clinic was, whether it was a drum clinic, a guitar clinic, or a bass clinic, I pioneered that in 1971. I pioneered the clinics, I pioneered writing the books, I pioneered some drum sizes and drumming stands, and the way I created a style. I didn’t even know they have that, but you’re probably right. You’re the first one that ever brought that up to me. It would be nice, but I’ve gotten so many other awards, it doesn’t really bother me. I got the Modern Drummer award. I was the very first one in Modern Drummer magazine to win the rock poles. So many different poles, on Sunset Blvd, my hands are in the Rock Walk Of Fame and all these other things that I’ve gotten, the Heavy Metal rock award. But it would be nice, but if it ain’t, maybe when I die, I’ll go in. 17:08
On upcoming projects – On December 1, I have my very first storytelling gig, which is called The Carmine Appice Diaries, and it’s gonna involve the audience. I’m gonna have a drum set there, I’m gonna play “Hot Legs” at the end of the show, I took the drums off a “Hot Legs” with Rod (Stewart), when Rod goes, “I love you, honey”, I’ll do a drum solo. Then I’ll meet everybody over at the merch. The intro is really a cool intro. You see a diary running through the sky and you see all these pictures going into the diary, it’s got all this orchestral music going through it, and then it flies through the crowds and it hits the ground, it opens up and you see some of the pictures and the orchestra is still playing. Then it comes to the screen, full screen, and the names of the stories come in and that’s the story. So then we’re gonna say, “Welcome Carmine Appice”, my wife is a radio talk show host, so she’ll say “Welcome Carmine Appice” on the flash drive, and I’m gonna come up and get everybody clapping their hands and play a stick solo on my sticks, as I do. When I end it, I’m gonna go, “Okay, let’s do some story-telling raise your hands. If you wanna hear a story”, somebody raises in hand, I pick him. “What story you want to hear?” and he says, “I want to hear the John Lennon eats lasagna story”, “I wanna hear the Prince and your bad story”, whatever we title it. Then the titles stay up on the screen for the whole show, and then I go, “Okay. Next”. They raise their hands and somebody might ask me a question, I know somebody’s gonna wanna ask me about the mud shark. I’m gonna say that “I’m sorry. That story is too X-rated. You wanna hear that story, it’s in the book”…The first one is in the Boca Black Box, December. 1. It’s a small place there. I didn’t know if it was gonna be successful. I wanted to do it in Florida where it would be easy to book something. I booked it and so far, we haven’t really promoted it, and we’ve got 50 of the100 tickets sold and anticipate that we can get close to a sellout if not a sellout. Then I’m gonna have somebody there with cameras, are gonna video it, and I can make a really cool sizzle reel. I got an Agent that said he can book it. I heard that Riki Rachtman is doing that too but he’s just during the ’80s. I am gonna be doing the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, ’90s stories about everywhere. 19:05
On if there will ever be a Blue Murder reunion – The closest thing to Blue Murder is my Guitar Zeuss records because we had Kelly Keeling, who was on the second Blue Murder, Tony Franklin, myself, and John (Sykes). John doesn’t wanna do it. I don’t know why somebody said he don’t like the way the business is today. I don’t know why I haven’t really connected with him, and so that’s the closest thing, my Guitar Zeuss records. There’s a box set out now, we’re thinking of making the “Best Of” on a single vinyl, because some great stuff. Had a guy today say, “Man, I just listened to that Guitar Zeuss stuff. When did you do that?” I said, “1995”, and he goes, “Man, that deserves Octane right now. It’s so in time with Octane”. I said, “I know, it’s a great record”. So I really love the record. I think it’s some of the best stuff I’ve done in my career. 22:02
