A Conversation with The Byrds’ Chris Hillman

On seeing The Beatles on Ed Sullivan – Well, I think watching the Beatles me, along with thousands of other people that particular night, it was so exciting. There were elements of what they were doing. They did “I Want to Hold Your Hand” and one other song, “Please Please Me” or something. But there were elements of bluegrass in their music and country. The way they sang, of course, they listened to the Everly Brothers a lot. They cut their teeth on American rock and roll. We all know that story. But then they developed their own signature sound and it was so exciting to see them. I don’t think anybody wasn’t touched by that at any age.  I just walked into my mom’s apartment that night by accident. We, as I said in the book, in those days, everybody watched Ed Sullivan. Sunday night everybody turned it on. My mom said, “They’re pretty good”, and I’m going, “Mom, they’re better than good, they’re coming right out of the screen at me!” They were so exciting live. Their attitude was great. They changed the culture, they changed fashion, and they healed us. They healed the nation from John Kennedy’s assassination, which basically two months prior, a little over two months prior to the Beatles being on Ed Sullivan in February, John Kennedy was killed in November. And I think they were like a divinely sent healing force. I really do, because it was just wonderful. At that point in time, I was still playing bluegrass in a not very good group at the time, but I was able to eat and I wasn’t thinking about that. Then it sort of developed where how the Beatles affect other people like Roger McGuinn, who had seen it, and David Crosby and all the other guys eventually formed The Byrds. 3:37

On forming the country-rock sound of The Byrds – No one in The Byrds came out of rock in that sense, meaning we weren’t a garage rock band. We had no idea. (Roger) McGuinn was a folk singer and had been an accompanist as to the Limelighters and Chad Mitchell Trio, David (Crosby) had been a solo folk singer. Gene Clark had been a member of the Christy Minstrels folk group, and I was in bluegrass bands. I think Mike Clarke, the drummer, probably had the most rock and roll experience out of all of us. But we literally, and I always used to say this, I still do, we literally plugged into the wall with that amplifier and just went from there. We just developed a sound. Roger was a very seasoned musician, far more than we were. He had so much experience.  I, as a bass player, learning the bass, had no idea how to play the bass. But I’m listening to Roger and I’m sort of watching him and playing off of him and how he’s playing. Somehow we develop a sound that I felt was so, over the years, so unique. I mean, we just didn’t have that, as I say, blueprint for what to do. But I must tell you, I must confess, we did watch Hard Day’s Night about ten times in the movie theater and studied it. We loved the Beatles. We emulated the Beatles. But I think you go from emulating and then you go into more and more innovative things you might say… I think  Sweetheart of the Rodeo, which was recorded in 1968, and I always say it wasn’t my favorite Byrds album, but having come from that background, I liked it. I like what we were doing. But what that album did accomplish was it opened the floodgates and it did develop that country sound, country rock, California country, and through Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and Pure Prairie League, Gene Clark and Doug Dillard, Dillard and Kline, great stuff. Burrito Brothers, of course right after Sweetheart of the Rodeo. So that opened that whole thing up to that kind of music and it led up to the Eagles. And they’re still going.6:06

On working with ever-changing lineups – Absolutely it was beneficial to work with different people, get different input. Yes, I felt I was always curious, where would we have gone after “Eight Miles High”? Because we had gone from covering Bob Dylan and then all of a sudden we’re doing songs like “Eight Miles High” and then shortly thereafter, “Rock and Roll Star” were really great tracks, meaning we had really developed into a solid band with a sound. So I always thought, “Where would we have ended up if we had stayed together?” If David stayed a little longer and everybody had gone on from there and not necessarily gone into Sweetheart of the Rodeo, which was fine. But, we’re all geniuses at hindsight. The Byrds are great, I got it. Hey, listen, I loved it. I feel very blessed to have been a part of that, a great band, and we didn’t always hit them out of the park but our track record, meaning the songs we recorded and picked, pretty well held up. 9:04 

On working with Gram Parsons – I really forgave him, to quote a biblical phrase, I forgave him “70 times seven”.  Gram was a good guy initially and when he was ambitious and sort of hungry in that sense. The problem with poor Gram was, I think, that held him back was that he had that trust fund coming in every January. Fifty-five thousand dollars. Well, in 1968, there was a lot of money. It still is. Everybody else that goes off with aspirations saying, “I’m going to get into music”, or “I want to be an actor or a writer or whatever”, you struggle. That’s how you learn how to do it. Through the struggle, you learn how to survive, how to create, how to make it work for you. He didn’t have that opportunity. It really did hold him back. He was a good guy. We wrote great songs together. He wrote some really good songs with other people. He was a good co-writer, with me, with Bob Buchanan, who helped him do “Hickory Wind”,  “100 Years From Now”. Some other people, Ric Grech he wrote some songs with. He had the talent, he just lost his drive and he got seduced by some real dark stuff. That’s all, we had to say bye-bye. Finally, I said, that’s it, but never stop liking him. I love the guy like a brother and looked out for him. 10:24

On meeting Emmylou Harris in a D.C. club –  I think Rick Roberts was playing in the Burrito’s at that point. I think, Rick,  after a soundcheck, we were up the street and he said, “There’s a really good young lady singing down the street”, and I said, “OK, I’ll go down and watch her”. She had a very charismatic way about her. She was a beautiful girl, and she’s mostly singing folk songs that when I heard her and I introduced myself, I said, “Would you like to come up to the Cellar Door up the street and sing one with us?” She said, “Sure”, and I said, “you know where?” She says, “I know who you guys are. I know a country song”, She says, “I know a country song I can do”, and I said, “We can do whatever you want. We will back you”. She picked “It Wasn’t God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels”, which was a hit for Kitty Wells. She did it quite well. I probably said, “Hey, you ever want to be in a group?” It’s funny, I never worked with a lady singer But anyway, long story short, Gram comes back from England and we meet up in the Southeast and I’m playing a show and he sits in and sings one with me and we’re getting along great. He says, “I’m going to go back to L.A. and I’m going to make a record. I want to find a girl singer”. I said, “I got someone for you to meet” and it took me an hour to convince him to call her. Finally, he calls her up and he works out taking the train up to Washington, D.C., and meeting her and all the above. Then and from there, it went into some good places. He took her out to L.A. and they went on the first album and the second album. But she ended up taking over my role. I was his caretaker, I went, “Here, Emmy”. She was his caretaker for a year or two. But what happened was he really taught her about the music. After he passed on, she had an opportunity to go to Warner Brothers, and there it was. She had a career waiting for her. I think her first big hit was with Herb Pedersen, my pal. I’ve been singing with (Herb) since 1963. “If I Could Only Win Your Love”, you won’t find a better duet on record. It’s so beautiful the way they sing together and Herb’s so talented as a harmony singer. His great talent is he becomes the person he’s singing with. He really has an ear for that. That’s the tightest harmony I’ve ever heard him do is with that song. 12:29

On reconnecting with Herb Pederson and forming The Desert Rose Band – We both grew up with bluegrass. He grew up in Berkeley, California. I basically grew up in San Diego. But we both had that love of bluegrass. We were the odd kids in high school. There was one other kid that liked bluegrass in my high school and the same with Herb. But we met each other in 1963 and kept in touch. The Desert Rose Band started to come together in the mid-eighties. John Jorgenson was very prominent in pushing that. I didn’t want to put another electric band together. I was happy playing acoustic music, but we did it and I didn’t expect it. I wasn’t looking for a record deal. When we got our first hit record, I couldn’t believe it. I even told my wife, I said, “I don’t believe this is happening. This isn’t supposed to happen”. But all of a sudden we had a second single we put out was number three in Billboard Top Ten. From there on, we had a huge string of hits. The longest I’d ever been in a band that was about eight years in the ’90s and I had a great time. Our onstage live performances were in the 90th percentile, meaning everybody was a pro. So my previous forays into bands, there was always some kinds of mischief going on. It would hurt the performance. Didn’t have that in Desert Rose. Everybody was on the money, on the game, singing, playing It was great and it was like the end of a long journey of apprenticeship for me.  I was the lieutenant to Steven (Stills), I was Steven’s right-hand man. But Desert Rose, I was steering the boat. But I could have done it without those guys, I’ll tell you that. 15:51

On whether other members of the Byrds should have been included in the Rock Hall Induction – No, I don’t think so. I think it always should be the original members of the group. This happened with the Beach Boys. No, just the original people. Gram was a hired sideman in The Byrds, as was Clarence White and Gene Parsons, and Skip Battin. They were salaried members and The Byrds were still the original five guys. That’s one rule they might have bent a little, but I think it should always be the original people that qualify for that. 18:29

On if he knew the 1991 Induction would be the last time all five Byrds were together – I had a feeling, but I didn’t really dwell on it. Our reunion album didn’t quite get where it should have gone. We should have made a better effort at that. But I didn’t think we’re going to get back together. I know certain people felt strongly about that. Then, of course, when Mike and Gene passed on, I mean, that was it. We couldn’t we could perform without them. We could, but we didn’t want to do that. Then we all are working and happy and have our own careers and things. 19:19

On continuing his collaboration with Roger McGuinn and Marty Stuart – Well, for (the) Sweetheart (tour), it was (just a one-time thing), but I think I certainly could see doing things with those two guys any time, they were a joy to work with. Roger’s always been really great to work with, he’s a consummate professional. We talk every Friday, we have time every Friday. He lives in Florida and we all play trivia. I’m out here in California and he’s in Florida and a couple other couples. But we’re very close  Marty, I love dear, dear man, love him, sweet man and such a great musician. Would I do something with Marty again? In a second. Roger? In a second. I had more fun on that too. Might have been the best tour I ever went on and I went on some good ones. This was a joy. Just lovely. 20:15

On Tom Petty – I could say as much as I said about Marty and double it.  Tom was a wonderful guy and Roger was very close with Tom and had done some work with him. I knew Tom, but I didn’t know him as well as Roger did. Got to know him really well when we were working together.  I was honored that he wanted to do that with me, and I was out and somewhat in awe of him. I mean, but he was one of the most humble people I’ve ever been around.  I always say,  for a man who occupied that position in the world, he was a huge rock star, (but) he did not carry that around on his shoulder. He’s the most humble guy I’ve ever met. I drive up for overdubs at his studio and in the back of his house. Sometimes he’d be out there waiting to help me unload (rather than get) people to do that. He was just a great producer, great to work with, and honest. When I told him, I said, “I can’t tell you how much I appreciate what you did”, (he said) “What are you talking about?”  I said, “Well, that’s probably the last record I’ll do”. He says, “No, it isn’t. I’m not done with you”. I thought that was lovely to hear that. He wanted to do a country album and an electric rock album with me, so he said, but bless his heart, he’s off now…He emulated The Byrds in the early days. “Listen to Her Heart” is one of his songs, just like The Byrds. But he innovated. He took it beyond he took it ten steps up the ladder. I mean, he did a great version of “Feel a Whole Lot Better” and “Rock and Roll Star”.  He always acknowledged us. He took it way up there. He took what he got from us and enlarged it. 21:54

On remembering the people he’s worked with that have passed – Let me preface that with I have no animosity or grudges against anybody I work living or dead. I didn’t feel it was relevant in this book to write about or denigrate anybody in a way. What was the point? I couldn’t do it. Any number of people I worked with that were passed out or couldn’t play or drugged up or what was the point? I’d rather try and build up their talents and talk about how talented they were, as they all were that I went. But I didn’t have to go out of my way. People remember them for their own worth. It just seems such a waste to die young, first of all, and especially to trade in the career aspirations for the hedonism and that just got in there bad in the 70s, especially that decade, man, it was people going right and left and unnecessary. You’re not going to write, you’re not going to make great music using drugs. Known fact, you might think you are, but it’s not going to work out that way. It won’t hold up. 24:50

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